Some of them are situational and some are intended to have a more general character. Some are disasters and some are redemptive. But we do not live in that world. We live in a world that brings with it sweated labour, the pain of childbirth, and male domination. These are parts of our non-ideal world and they are parts of it with which we must come to terms. We can do it in a number of ways. We can view such people under the searchlight of ideal theory and deem them bad or defective in some way. Or we can ask ourselves how best to accommodate, within the most comprehensive of Christian frameworks available to us, the human and spiritual needs of such people.
We attempt to do this with work, with childbirth, and male domination — we seek to diminish sweated brow, provide ways of relieving the pains of childbirth, and transform the brutalizing tendencies of male domination. Indeed, we develop theologies of these. One likely quick rejoinder has to do with the various Old and New Testament passages dealing with homosexual conduct.
As Gordon reminds us, we do not want to make the mistakes of those who argued so assiduously for the scriptural warrantedness of slavery. This is not to let in anything and everything. As we have developed our theology of a non-ideal world, we have eased out paederasty, slavery, and more awkwardly polygamy, and developed more humane understandings of marital relations marital rape is no longer an oxymoron , divorce, and labor relations.
And, I think, it may be time to develop a more human and theologically nuanced approach to homosexual conduct, including issues of homosexual marriage. After all, in the world to come, in which we may hope to have a more ideal arrangement than the one we now have, there will be no marriage or giving in marriage.
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Russell Warnken June 7, , PM. Thanks to Gordon for a well-written, thoughtful piece on Kevin Rudd's recent announcement. Christian organisations, especially those that do not agree with same-sex marriage and receive government funds, may have good reason to be concerned if the Marriage Act is changed to allow same-sex marriage. The promises of exemptions for churches and other Christian organisations, are in some cases I think, not a lot more that attempts divide those who oppose changes to the Marriage Act. In this matter of a changed Marriage Act and exemptions, former High Court judge, Michael Kirby, is on the record as saying that all citizens should be required to obey the law of the land i.
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If exemptions were enshrined in law I believe there are many who would be willing to mount a challenge. Gordon writes that we will likely have gay marriages soon. The amazing thing for me is that we don't have them already given the near universal support for this change in all forms of the Australian media. Opposing voices are ignored or caricatured.
I appreciate the point that John Keinig makes and Scripture is full of the tension between the ideal and non-ideal, as is the chequered history of the church.
The question is the perennial one of how far does one go in accepting the non-ideal and on what basis? How far can one go and still be genuinely Christian?
Neil Campbell June 19, , PM. I am ambivalent towards PM Gillard - not so with Kevin Rudd, a man who calls himself a Christian, but is so hated within his own party for the way he treats people. A hypocrite is he. I am surprised that within a secular society, Gay marriage has not happened - we are in a post-Christian world in the west C'est La Vie!
Ross Tatam July 2, , PM.
Sexual Citizenship and Coalitions
The 'multiple marriage model' approach may be the only way to deal with this practically and legally. The Commonwealth was given the power to make laws with respect to marriage under s.
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It is obvious that what constitutes 'marriage' has changed somewhat since. As a Christian man I am married to a Christian woman. I believe that the primary recognition of this marriage is from God and the other Christian brothers and sisters who attended our wedding.
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As such, I am committed to living out a Biblical understanding of that relationship as far as possible with an interdependence on my Christian brothers and sisters for guidance, encouragement and censure. The secondary recognition is that of the state which legally only commits me to a 'contract of concubinage'. Many marriages are formalised inside a church building with the involvement of a Minister of the church authorised by the state to conduct marriages but outside the church as a spiritual rather than a physical reality and are entered into without any hint of Christian commitment, Perhaps a separation of church and state on this issue may lead to some clarity.
Jeremy September 5, , AM. It's nice to find a more moderate view of Rudd's change of heart and an acknowledgement that he came to this though a considered christian analysis. I realise that my comment is late, however credit where it's due to the OP. Yet, protective of their feudal lordships in a feudal mindset — they claw and grasp at temporal power — failing miserably in pastoral duties. In fact, a former attorney who became a priest, and who previously pastored the splendid Episcopal Church in Amherst, MA.
Most of these priests and bishops are also married, and many of them have young or teenage children. It is this genuine real world experience in dealing with complicated issues that appears to be so appallingly lacking among the cloistered and aloof clergy of our own Roman Catholic Church. The underlying problem is easily diagnosed.
I always thought he was Anglican Church of England but was bought up Catholic. Thought he and his wife, Ms. Rein, attended Anglican Churches, and his profile on Wikipedia says he is Anglican…. He was brought up Catholic, but he has worshiped as an Anglican for most of his adult life. Chris Perrey Musculoskeletal and Sports Physiotherapist. Stacey Stockman de Rooy Sports Physiotherapist. Bryony McCrudden Sports Physiotherapist. Evan Coopes Musculoskeletal and Sports Physiotherapist.
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